Jenny Saucerman - Designing Scenario-Based Assessments
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- Read 'Branching Scenarios in eLearning – the Whats, Whys, and Hows'
- Learning While Working Podcasts with Jenny Saucerman
Automatic Transcript of Jenny Saucerman - Designing Scenario-Based Assessments
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:45:21
Hello my name is Jenny Saucerman, I’m an instructional designer for Credit Union National Association, out of the US.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:45:33
I have a lot of - I have a very soft spot for assessment because my master's thesis was on assessment, and I kind of alluded to this a chat automatically going through student chat, and assessing them on the fly and seeing if they're meeting learning objectives,
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:45:53
so I'm very much into alternative forms of assessment and different ways that we can go about that, that are a little different than what we're used to saying
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:46:12
sorry.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:46:13
Okay, here we go.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:46:21
So, a lot of people are probably familiar with this phrase, when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:46:29
So this means that when we have a certain tool that we use, we tend to view the world within the framework of that tool so we look for instances in which we can use the tool, and sometimes we use it in appropriately because we're always looking for that
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:46:47
outlet.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:46:51
So I believe this metaphor applies really well to E learning. So, we have this tool of assessment, which is multiple choice tests.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:47:03
And a lot of times it isn't appropriate outlet for it.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:47:07
But sometimes it's not, not all assessment problems or nails not all assessment problems are appropriate for the purposes of a multiple choice test.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:47:21
So as trainers as you learn developers instructional designers, it's our responsibility to identify the most appropriate tool for the job.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:47:31
So, can you see myself as having this toolbox, and there are different tools in my toolbox, and it is my job to identify which is the most appropriate based on the learning problem that we are encountering for our learners.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:48:02
So a lot of people have this default assessment tool, which is multiple choice tests, and Robin kind of covered a lot of the reasons why that is the case, a lot of people are really familiar with them, they're built into our tools on the tools we use
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:48:20
the assumption that that's the form of assessment we're taking, but I kind of want to invite you to sit back and ask yourself, Is this the right fit for my e learning module.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:48:21
So, in order to kind of discuss alternative assessments, I want us to take some time to consider what makes a good assessment, because we need to kind of understand a little theory behind assessment, before we can move forward to determine what is and
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:48:40
is not an appropriate assessment given the learning problem.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:48:45
So there are two major concepts. When it comes to assessment, there is liability, and there's validity so I'm going to briefly cover these topics.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:48:58
So if your assessment is reliable, that means you have consistent and repeatable responses. So if you ask most people, whether the animal in the photo is a rabbit, or a duck.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:49:14
Some people may think duck.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:49:17
But I think most people are probably going to say rabbit, and if you ask them again, their progress a rabbit again and rabbit again.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:49:25
Doesn't matter if they're hungry, doesn't matter if they're tired Is it like under most circumstances, that is the answer. They're going to repeatedly give.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:49:38
So if you present this image, instead of the photo that I just presented, you're probably not going to have that consistency and repeatable responses, I'm kind of like a Rorschach painting or it's it's really a big us so that's nice.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:49:58
So you know it might look like a doc in the morning and night in the evening, kind of compare it to.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:50:06
You know the black, is it the black and blue dress, is it the golden white dries.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:50:13
So, the answers may not be consistent and repeatable.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:50:17
So if that's the case, your assessment is not reliable.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:50:24
So now we're going to move on to this concept of validity.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:50:29
Validity means it measures what is intended to be measured.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:50:33
So if you're interested in the question of do people perceive the striking as a duck, or as the rabbit.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:50:42
Asking them whether it's a pineapple or an orange is not going to answer that question for you.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:50:48
That would not be a valid measurement because it is not measuring the concept that you're trying to capture in your assessment.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:50:56
So that's what I mean by validity I'm going to build a little more on this concept.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:51:03
So we have this concept of treat validity, um, and a lot of these lessons we have on this is definitely what we're aiming for right the test is reliable, again, repeatable you get the same answers consistently and identifies people who do and do not understand
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:51:20
the concept so you're trying to differentiate between people who understand this concept and people who don't.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:51:28
For our purposes, we are really interested in this concept of construct validity. So, the test is reliable. It identifies people who doing don't understand the concept, and it predicts future performance.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:51:45
So we're really interested in this concept of predicting future performance, especially in the E learning I create. We want to be able to make the claim that if our learner passes this assessment.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:51:57
That means when they go forward into their jobs, their job performance is going to reflect the fact that they were able to pass the assessment, if they're able to pass the assessment but not do the skill, then it might not be the best assessment kind
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:52:12
of like what Robin was talking about earlier with diving, how he did great on the written but as soon as he got to the water, he's like, Nope, that's kind of the concept we're looking for here is that we want an assessment that could predict his ability
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:52:28
in the water.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:52:32
So multiple choice questions we're not originally designed to predict future performance.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:52:42
So I don't want. I'm not trashing this man he did a great job with what he intended, the assessment to measure it's just that it's been taken out of context.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:52:54
so just keep that in mind one talking.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:52:57
So, project j Kelly was the inventor of multiple choice exams.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:53:02
He was a graduate student when he developed this which is crazy like he you know he was a grad school and he's developed this assessment format that most people use all around the world.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:53:17
So, it's in the context of, there were teacher shortages, due to World War One. And there were increasing immigrant population and public schools. So, one of the difficulties that they were facing and education was that they had a lot of novice teachers,
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:53:38
and they also had a lot of a lot more diversity within the school system. And so now all of those teachers were grading their students fairly because it was up to the teacher to say yep you got it or nope you didn't, and the concern was that there were
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:53:58
outside influences rather than the students actual ability to perform this skill.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:54:07
Another benefit of this was that test can be produced cheaply and quickly and controlled for many variables. So it was considered to be a lot more objective was considered to be developed by people who didn't have the educational background.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:54:26
And so this test was intended to test lower order thinking skills for context.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:54:33
It was developed for like second grade reading skills. So the ability to read a paragraph, and then identify.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:54:42
So the children could identify which animals were discussed in the paragraph kind of checking that low order literacy and thinking it was not intended to capture a lot more of the complex thinking skills that are very important in our current era, and
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:55:02
he was actually very upset that his assessment format was being used for college entrance exams, because he did not believe it was an appropriate use of the assessment.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:55:19
So, multiple choice questions are not always the best tool for assessment.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:55:26
Again, it was developed with the assumption that we're testing those low levels skills. And for a lot of the use cases that is not going to be an appropriate fit.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:55:42
Okay, yo. Got it. What do I do now.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:55:47
I want to provide you with an alternative that you could potentially develop. I just don't want to rail against what everyone is using without providing you some sort of alternative.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:55:59
So in this presentation I'm going to discuss an alternative form of assessment which would be scenario based assessments.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:56:08
So again, scenario based assessments are a tool in your toolbox. They are not appropriate for every learning problem. So we need to identify the cases in which is an appropriate assessment to use
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:56:24
soft skills are a great fit for branching exams reason for this is that branching exams and scenario based assessments, not just branching they're all there are different forms of scenario based assessments.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:56:56
A lot of it's not black and white. There's not one right answer. Um, especially for like social situations right like they're typically isn't like the one right way to communicate with someone.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:57:04
So we want that complex problem solving space. This is not good if like, it's like, yes or no, right, like, it's, it has to be complex.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:57:16
If you can see how the situation changes depending on your answer. That is a great fit for scenario based assessments. So, the learner is able to make a choice, and their choice effects on the situation and they get to see how that is affected.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:57:35
That is a great fit for scenario based assessment.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:57:50
If it's like, this is generally better than that approach, but, you know, then you have that interesting gray area complex problem solving space to work with them.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:57:56
And again, I was kind of getting toward this earlier, there are some answers that are better than others versus right or wrong, like if it's a simple binary like yes no it's not going to be a good fit for scenario based assessment.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:58:06
All right. How do we build one. So I'm going to cover two examples of ones I have built to kind of demonstrate to you what this actually looks like. And I'm going to cut out, go behind the scenes and tell you how I built it.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:58:24
So the first one is for the Bank Secrecy Act. overview course. And so, the Bank Secrecy Act is federal regulations for all employees who work in finance, and they need to know to look out for certain things and procedures, so that the credit union isn't
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:58:46
accidentally funding crime or terrorist activities. So that's kind of the thought process behind the Bank Secrecy Act. And so this course is kind of a review, so it's not it's not an introductory course, this would be the course you would take the year
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:59:02
after you had the introductory course.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:59:08
So this was kind of the thought process I had when I was developing this assessment.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:59:15
I wanted to show compliance in terms of social situations, rather than asking for definitions of terms. So, I could make a multiple choice question that's like, what is the threshold for having to file a Ctr.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:59:30
5000 10,000 11,000. Okay.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:59:36
That's a good thing to know but that's not really what the application of what they're going to do is going to look like in their actual jobs in there.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:59:44
Yes. The correct answer is $10,000. Absolutely.
[Jenny Saucerman] 10:59:48
Absolutely. I wanted to show kind of the situations, they're going to be in when they're interacting with numbers, and they need to have that information or to make the right decisions, but it's not a simple guess no like they need to assess the situation and then
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:00:02
make a decision based off the situation.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:00:07
And so we also had a follow up question, which is, instead of simply selecting the answers they also needed to select the justifications for their answers, so they didn't just need to know which file to forum.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:00:20
They also need to be able to articulate why they picked that.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:00:26
And I just kind of wanted to put this into a like a realistic situation I wanted them to see what this might actually look like in their jobs.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:00:35
So let's take a look.
[Liam - Sprout] 11:01:02
Sorry to interrupt to Jenny, are we meant to be getting audio from this.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:01:09
Yes.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:01:11
Do you want to reshare your screen or do we want to just move on because if you share your screen there should be an option when you share your screen, the bottom, there should be a little checkbox called share audio, something along the lines of that
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:01:34
would people be okay with the captions.
[Liam - Sprout] 11:01:41
I think we can see the captions falling off.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:01:45
Okay, yeah, sorry about that.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:01:49
Audio is always a pain with these things.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:02:21
So you can see here on so they see the situation, and then they have to select what the files they need to form, and they also had to show the justification for that.
[Liam - Sprout] 11:02:35
You know, I actually am going to try to get video or sorry audio. So you're saying I stopped the share and then re share. Yeah, there should be a little check box in the bottom left I've also got your backup slideshow here and I'm just saying if I can
[Liam - Sprout] 11:02:50
get it open in the meantime.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:02:53
Okay. Sorry about this.
[Liam - Sprout] 11:03:06
You are about to take a second, I think I might have it here.
[Liam - Sprout] 11:03:09
But if I just took over.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:03:11
Can I try mine. Oh yeah, okay. I think I got it.
[Liam - Sprout] 11:03:20
Oh Jesus that blank.
[Liam - Sprout] 11:03:26
You are about to take a 10.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:03:32
You are 10 question exam, you will watch it now.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:03:36
Right. Okay, so I'm not going to make you really watch that but we have video for the next we have audio for the next video. Okay.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:03:46
Great.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:03:46
Okay. Um, so I what I did to build this assessment is I completed the videos and the beyond tool. If you're not familiar with beyond I recommend that you check it out.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:03:59
It's a very easy way to create these sorts of videos.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:04:07
And so, for my development process I worked with sneeze to develop violation case studies so what sorts of things do you actually see.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:04:17
I wrote a script send it to my sneeze they approved it.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:04:22
I designed the video and beyond and hired professional VO The professional vo really makes a big difference to production quality so I recommend that.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:04:31
And I use the multiple selection option in storyline.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:04:38
Okay, so that was one form of scenario based assessment, I'm going to move on to now my branching one.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:04:47
So this course is difficult member discussions. So, especially for one frontline staff they are encountered with member who's angry. And so they need to know how to appropriately deal with someone who's kind of angry like in their face.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:05:04
So my thought process behind this one it was that it should feel like a simulation and be like really like like for better validity as we construct reality is we're talking about before.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:05:17
The first person perspective in the camera is a better simulation and puts them in the shoes of the person. And it's also cheaper.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:05:25
Love it.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:05:27
You can redirect the conversation, if it's going in a bad direction but there are conversation unders if you lie to the member. That's it. Like, you're done with that because that is absolutely not appropriate.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:05:39
But because it is a conversation you can kind of steer it a different direction and get more points.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:05:46
I included a tutorials, it didn't affect the final score.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:05:49
Alright, let's take a look at this high
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:05:54
look to have an official check written out for ABC realty please.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:05:59
Thanks.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:06:04
way what, there's a fee,
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:06:09
look at other branches without any fees.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:06:14
Credit Union Strider nickel and dime us nowadays
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:06:23
charging me for a simple service isn't helping me.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:06:34
What, so it was an exception.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:06:43
Okay.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:06:50
Sure.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:06:54
Yep.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:06:57
So you can kind of see there like that first person perspective, they're behind the teller line so they kind of see that environment, and they were able to direct the conversation, and we're assessing them on their decision making.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:07:12
So for to build this one I developed the script branching and scoring and ice cream. Ice cream is a brand new scenario tool that you can use. Definitely recommend using it.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:07:22
Because storyline is not built with the assumption that you are branching, it is not fun to bridge in it you can, it's not fun.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:07:31
So I would recommend prototyping and getting all your initial work done in ice cream.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:07:39
So I exported the script from ice spring, I made it human friendly for the actors to work off of.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:07:47
We did a film shoot so I had my actors come in and perform all credit union largest user space which was awesome of them.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:07:56
And then we developed the branching structure navigation scoring in storyline of. We did have a custom variable, I'm going to show you what we use now because storyline, up to great and it's great.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:08:12
And then we dropped in the video clips.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:08:16
So this is kind of what branching looks like an ice spring. So this is how you get the structure of the branching down.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:08:25
And so in I spring you're able to display your user score on. So this is how I identified, I'm going to call them notes.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:08:39
This is like what you're looking at right now would be considered a node and then the decisions are branches. So, in the nodes, you can't you cannot display the user score and so I use that to keep track of what the learners score be throughout the same.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:08:50
So this is how you branch in storyline. It gives you the option to branch branch to the following, so you select that, from a menu.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:08:59
And this is what it looks like. Again storyline assumes a linear structure is not assuming you are branching, so it is not the most fun thing to do, but it's possible.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:09:10
So this is where I used to go into like that custom variable.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:09:15
But storyline, maybe oh geez like a year or two ago, um, now has the ability to only score viewed questions, because if you don't have that enabled, it takes the questions that the learner doesn't see and hold it against them in the scoring.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:09:33
Well if you enable only score viewed questions that doesn't happen, so no more need for a custom variable, it's great.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:09:42
So how did it go so far.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:09:47
Um, that last course I just showed you, very high ratings learners really like it.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:09:56
The PSA overview assessment. When you are designing something new that learners might not have seen before. They needed some more explicit instructions.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:10:04
When you are designing something new that learners might not have seen before. They needed some more explicit instructions. I got some emails that were like, I selected each individual thing, but I didn't pass the exam so something's wrong with it.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:10:14
so I had to add on every screen, that there may be more than one correct answer.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:10:18
When people aren't used to things it could take a little practice on, so we also have added vo indicating that hey there may be more than one correct answer.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:10:29
But I'm credit unions I've been really happy with that course, and I only really had two people and then as soon as I added that tax, no one else has said anything, so again if you're trying something new.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:10:43
After listen for feedback and then incorporate that feedback we've gotten user comments that are like I really enjoy that type of interaction training learners are looking for something new and different like they, if it's an appropriate use of your tool,
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:10:57
tool, they feel that and they really enjoy it and credit unions have loved this material.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:11:05
So, future directions.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:11:08
I would love to export this to x API and see how long learners are taking to make their decisions. I can see like maybe is there a particular part where they're getting stuck or need to think about a little more.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:11:24
I would love to develop a model of how people are moving through the assessment so I can see their scores, but I would love to know kind of where they fall in that branching.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:11:35
And I would love to use the scores on assessment to predict learner on the job performance because again, that's what we're looking for in our assessments, we want to be able to do that.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:11:45
That's why validates the assessment, so I would love to do that.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:11:50
So my question to you is, how do you envision incorporating scenario based assessment into your courses.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:12:07
Do you think the time taken to respond with the accessible.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:12:13
You know, given the tools I've worked with, I don't know that it can incorporate time as of right now, but that doesn't mean that that you can't. And there are certainly going to be situations and what you need your learner's to make that quick decision.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:12:32
I'm not saying it's impossible I just haven't thought about it or looked into it so that would be interesting.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:12:41
No, I'm not.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:12:43
So to me, I'm not concerned about time like it. I just think it's interesting so I want to know like is there a particular decision point that tends to have longer time to respond, then other points but I'm not worried.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:12:59
In the case of these assessments since time is not really important. I'm not concerned are going to use it against anyone. It's just a curiosity thing that I would like to see like, oh, are people like sitting here think really considering like this particular
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:13:13
node.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:13:25
Okay, so I'm just going to open the floor to any other questions you have that you would like to ask me.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:13:39
Yes scenario based assessment is very useful for modules that cover safety, especially if it's, you need to assess if your learners can go into a more dangerous environment, or if they're going to be doing anything with like medicine, and the ability
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:13:56
to like you're testing kind of that high stakes skills in a relatively safe environment before they move forward.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:14:08
culture cultural capability training and suicide risk stuff. Absolutely.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:14:13
Those would be great.
[Robin Petterd - Host] 11:14:15
Uses of branching scenarios.
[Robin Petterd - Host] 11:14:19
Jenny to pick up on some on state statements on the branching scenarios are actually quite complicated, fairly complex question. How do you think.
[Robin Petterd - Host] 11:14:30
What's your process to make it too easy and more viable to use them more often.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:14:36
Yeah, so, um, I kind of, when I'm doing a scenario, I kind of view as a story, because a lot of them are very narrative based, so my story has arcs. Um, so I might be assessing for this specific concept.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:14:53
A lot of times, I do not examples. So not only do I want learners to identify when they need to do something I also need them to identify when they shouldn't do something.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:15:04
So I will have like okay this instance is a non case, this instance is an example of needing to file Ctr. This one is example of needing to file a star and a Ctr.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:15:16
So I kind of divide it conceptually that way. And then I write the stories within those concepts.
[Robin Petterd - Host] 11:15:23
Yeah.
[Robin Petterd - Host] 11:15:23
So you break down those story points and arcs and those really, really cool decisions, and then you put you you build it back back from there rather than opening up into huge amounts of different possibilities.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:15:38
Absolutely. And yes, interpersonal skills are absolutely a great fit for this because again if you're talking to a human being, there's not going for the most part, there isn't like instant conversation Enders right you can lead the conversation in a
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:15:55
better or worse way, you can save the conversation sometimes. So it is a great fit for this sort of assessment.
[Robin Petterd - Host] 11:16:03
Got some more questions coming back in chat as well, Jim.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:16:08
I always wonder scenario based branching activities and E learning allows for learners to deep dive into the topic, or is it more useful for simply skills.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:16:19
Yeah, I think.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:16:24
I think it could possibly be an assessment of
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:16:32
for a simple skills.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:16:34
Yeah, so I think simple skills are more going to kind of be more about sort of multiple choice approach like I just, I need a very low level understanding Can you do this or not, whereas like I think this assessment is more appropriate for like those
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:16:51
deep dives.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:16:53
And, like, knowing and taking information and processing it and then making decisions based off of that.
[Robin Petterd - Host] 11:17:03
Maybe one more question.
[Robin Petterd - Host] 11:17:06
So, Jenny and then oh
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:17:14
good examples of scenario assessments as part of the training for our health based health is a great outlet for scenario based assessments because again you're interacting with people you have to make decisions based on a lot of information.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:17:30
So if it's going anything beyond.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:17:34
This fact is true or false. Absolutely, I've definitely done medical assessments, based on branching.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:17:45
Well, thank you so much for taking the time to be with me today.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:17:50
This is my contact information so if you'd like to reach out please do reach out by email, that's my work phone. I'm also on Twitter and LinkedIn. I'm happy to respond to any questions you have.
[Jenny Saucerman] 11:18:03
I love talking about assessment. If you develop something you want me to look at it I would love to see what you come up with.
